Creepin' for Michael

Michael, here's Creepin' if you want to try to do something with it. Changes and mix-minus-guitar are attached. The original guitar comp was just quarter notes across the changes, but feel free to do whatever sounds best to you. It's intended to be a "Sixteen Tons/Stray Cat Strut" kinda hybrid.

A pentatonic blues scale works fine across these changes (and across Trevor's Tune as well) for solos and fills, but there's plenty of movement in the changes to do more than a blues scale if you hear something more fun.

This tune actually wants melody and lyrics/vocals - that's why the initial Hammond part is so simple... it's just doing the melody line I hear. Too bad Jimmy Mac hasn't been around for awhile, he writes some very nice stuff and I know he's got a home recording setup, too.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on October 29, 2009 at 11:44pm
Ahaa. LOL. Yeah, that's what I needed. You know what, lets keep those little instrumental tags in there and see what comes out. I like the fact that it's not a standard progression and arrangement. That gives it some flair. And with what we've come with so far, I'd say that's a good thing. As I mentioned in the PM, if we keep the post chorus tags in there, they need to add something. They are kind of bland right now. I'm thinking maybe some horn hits? I'd like to have something that pulls in some of the complex vocal melody lines possibly to tie it all together?

Again, lets see what we have after the vocals are added correctly and go from there. Once there, we can open it back up to the public forum and get some feedback on the direction so far.

Fun fun fun.

Chuck Mayo said:
I'm starting to see where this went wonky. On some of my instrumentals I take occasional liberties with the usual Intro-Verse-Verse-Chrorus-Verse-Verse-Chrous-Bridge-Chorus-Repeat-Out structure. On this tune, a verse-chrorus unit includes a half-verse tag after the chorus follorwed by a four-bar instrumental turnaround.

On the cut you have now, there's an extra half-verse of melody after the chorus between measures 33-40 (time: 1:09 - 1:27), followed by four bars of instrumental through measures 41-44 (time: 1:27 - 1:35).

The second vocal verse, as written, should actually be starting at measure 45 (time: 1:36) instead of at bar 33 (time: 1:09)

Intro

Verse
Verse
Chorus
Verse

Intro

Verse
Verse
Chrous
Verse

What do you think we should do with the discrepancy? I can kill those post-chorus tags. That'd cost us 34 seconds but at 3:45 we can afford it, or you could write another half-verse to follow each chorus, or even just repeat the second half of each verse after the chorus. I sent a copy of the lyrics back to your inbox with the latter adjustment, see what you think.

I did start to cut the click track you wanted, but decided not to change the measure count and timecodes until I knew we were on the same page with the structure.

The Roadhouse said:
So Chuck, have you listening to the rhythm track again and do you think we need to clip a few bars anywhere? Or do you like what I did with it and are happy with how it lines up? I'm good either way. Once I get your feedback, I'll cut a final vocal track for you.

My copy of Cubase Essentials 5.0 should arrive on Tuesday. :)

Michael

P.S. Any luck on adding a click track?
Permalink Reply by Chuck Mayo on October 30, 2009 at 12:08am
We may be getting confused over tags and turnarounds. What I'm referring to as tags are the single verse progressions immediately after each chorus. I'm thinking the tag marked verse 3 in your PM could just be a vocal repeat of verse 2 and the tag marked verse 6 could be a vocal repeat of verse 5, or maybe we could put solos in those slots, though I'm not sure solos there would really fit the tune.

I'm attaching an audio of the turnaround, just so we can identify that segment. The turnaround would go between verse 3 and verse 4.

The Roadhouse said:
Ahaa. LOL. Yeah, that's what I needed. You know what, lets keep those little instrumental tags in there and see what comes out. I like the fact that it's not a standard progression and arrangement. That gives it some flair. And with what we've come with so far, I'd say that's a good thing. As I mentioned in the PM, if we keep the post chorus tags in there, they need to add something. They are kind of bland right now. I'm thinking maybe some horn hits? I'd like to have something that pulls in some of the complex vocal melody lines possibly to tie it all together?

Again, lets see what we have after the vocals are added correctly and go from there. Once there, we can open it back up to the public forum and get some feedback on the direction so far.

Fun fun fun.

Chuck Mayo said:
I'm starting to see where this went wonky. On some of my instrumentals I take occasional liberties with the usual Intro-Verse-Verse-Chrorus-Verse-Verse-Chrous-Bridge-Chorus-Repeat-Out structure. On this tune, a verse-chrorus unit includes a half-verse tag after the chorus follorwed by a four-bar instrumental turnaround.

On the cut you have now, there's an extra half-verse of melody after the chorus between measures 33-40 (time: 1:09 - 1:27), followed by four bars of instrumental through measures 41-44 (time: 1:27 - 1:35).

The second vocal verse, as written, should actually be starting at measure 45 (time: 1:36) instead of at bar 33 (time: 1:09)

Intro

Verse
Verse
Chorus
Verse

Intro

Verse
Verse
Chrous
Verse

What do you think we should do with the discrepancy? I can kill those post-chorus tags. That'd cost us 34 seconds but at 3:45 we can afford it, or you could write another half-verse to follow each chorus, or even just repeat the second half of each verse after the chorus. I sent a copy of the lyrics back to your inbox with the latter adjustment, see what you think.

I did start to cut the click track you wanted, but decided not to change the measure count and timecodes until I knew we were on the same page with the structure.

The Roadhouse said:
So Chuck, have you listening to the rhythm track again and do you think we need to clip a few bars anywhere? Or do you like what I did with it and are happy with how it lines up? I'm good either way. Once I get your feedback, I'll cut a final vocal track for you.

My copy of Cubase Essentials 5.0 should arrive on Tuesday. :)

Michael

P.S. Any luck on adding a click track?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on October 30, 2009 at 12:38am
Yeah, we're seeing some of the difficulty of doing this online. A verse is a verse. I'm cool with the way you've laid them out. What we need to figure out is those little 4 bar instrumental sections. And as I mentioned in the PM, the one after Verse 6 is only two bars.

I agree that they might not fit. We'll have to record something and see what our ears tell us. I'm a little concerned with the V - V - C - V - Turnaround pattern. You put two of these together and you start to get even and odd numbers of verses throughout the song. The only thing that separates and distinguishes between once through the V - V - C - V pattern and the next is a 4 bar thing we haven't defined yet.

So until my ears here a solution that pulls it all together where the lyrics and song structure come together, I'm going to be worried that it isn't right. But like I said, the only way to know is to experiment with more recordings.

There's a song in there somewhere. It wants to come out. :)

Chuck Mayo said:
We may be getting confused over tags and turnarounds. What I'm referring to as tags are the single verse progressions immediately after each chorus. I'm thinking the tag marked verse 3 in your PM could just be a vocal repeat of verse 2 and the tag marked verse 6 could be a vocal repeat of verse 5, or maybe we could put solos in those slots, though I'm not sure solos there would really fit the tune.

I'm attaching an audio of the turnaround, just so we can identify that segment. The turnaround would go between verse 3 and verse 4.
Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on October 30, 2009 at 12:48am
Also, after re-reading you post, I'll say that dropping the post-chorus verses (3 and 6) might be the thing to do. Also, should the song have two intros?

The simplest way to do this would be:

Intro (8bars)

Verse
Verse
Chorus

Verse
Verse
Chorus

Outtro

Now, if we wanted to get fancy and keep with what I think your original intentions were, we could spice up the Chorus and the Outtro. Basically, everything in the tune is built around 8 bar progressions. We could experiment with putting 4 bars on the end of each chorus to add an instrumental section (like you kind of had before) that would signal a turnaround and repeat of the verse-chorus structure. Again, I'm not totally sure this would work. Just an idea.

Then, to add even more spice, we could have two parts of the outtro with a key change in the middle? Just saying. ;)
Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on October 30, 2009 at 12:51am
One more thing ... when I get stuck like this when I'm writing a song, sometimes the best way to resolve it is to just get together and sing it (both the vocal and instrumental melodies together). We might just want to get together and hash it out.
Permalink Reply by Chuck Mayo on October 30, 2009 at 10:43am
I'm re-ordering the tune in Cubse - can you send me a vocal track that I can lay in over the sections?

The Roadhouse said:
Also, after re-reading you post, I'll say that dropping the post-chorus verses (3 and 6) might be the thing to do. Also, should the song have two intros?

The simplest way to do this would be:

Intro (8bars)

Verse
Verse
Chorus

Verse
Verse
Chorus

Outtro

Now, if we wanted to get fancy and keep with what I think your original intentions were, we could spice up the Chorus and the Outtro. Basically, everything in the tune is built around 8 bar progressions. We could experiment with putting 4 bars on the end of each chorus to add an instrumental section (like you kind of had before) that would signal a turnaround and repeat of the verse-chorus structure. Again, I'm not totally sure this would work. Just an idea.

Then, to add even more spice, we could have two parts of the outtro with a key change in the middle? Just saying. ;)
Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on October 30, 2009 at 2:11pm
It will be sometime this weekend.

Chuck Mayo said:
I'm re-ordering the tune in Cubse - can you send me a vocal track that I can lay in over the sections?

The Roadhouse said:
Also, after re-reading you post, I'll say that dropping the post-chorus verses (3 and 6) might be the thing to do. Also, should the song have two intros?

The simplest way to do this would be:

Intro (8bars)

Verse
Verse
Chorus

Verse
Verse
Chorus

Outtro

Now, if we wanted to get fancy and keep with what I think your original intentions were, we could spice up the Chorus and the Outtro. Basically, everything in the tune is built around 8 bar progressions. We could experiment with putting 4 bars on the end of each chorus to add an instrumental section (like you kind of had before) that would signal a turnaround and repeat of the verse-chorus structure. Again, I'm not totally sure this would work. Just an idea.

Then, to add even more spice, we could have two parts of the outtro with a key change in the middle? Just saying. ;)
Permalink Reply by Chuck Mayo on October 30, 2009 at 2:35pm
No problem, I just need a scratch track to use while I rough in the new structure.

The Roadhouse said:
It will be sometime this weekend.

Chuck Mayo said:
I'm re-ordering the tune in Cubse - can you send me a vocal track that I can lay in over the sections?

The Roadhouse said:
Also, after re-reading you post, I'll say that dropping the post-chorus verses (3 and 6) might be the thing to do. Also, should the song have two intros?

The simplest way to do this would be:

Intro (8bars)

Verse
Verse
Chorus

Verse
Verse
Chorus

Outtro

Now, if we wanted to get fancy and keep with what I think your original intentions were, we could spice up the Chorus and the Outtro. Basically, everything in the tune is built around 8 bar progressions. We could experiment with putting 4 bars on the end of each chorus to add an instrumental section (like you kind of had before) that would signal a turnaround and repeat of the verse-chorus structure. Again, I'm not totally sure this would work. Just an idea.

Then, to add even more spice, we could have two parts of the outtro with a key change in the middle? Just saying. ;)
Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on November 12, 2009 at 9:10pm
Well, here is an almost finished version of the song with vocals and guitar. Yall take a listen and let me know what we need to fix. Input is welcome.

Thanks,

Michael
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Permalink Reply by G.F. " Hookman " Brown on November 12, 2009 at 11:12pm
That's some good stuff , Chuck and Strat.
You are quite some lyricist there Micheal.Good voice too.
That one's just about in the can, sounds like.
Again, good stuff.

The Roadhouse said:
Well, here is an almost finished version of the song with vocals and guitar. Yall take a listen and let me know what we need to fix. Input is welcome.

Thanks,

Michael
Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on November 13, 2009 at 8:21am
Thanks Hookman, looking forward to the next one. ;)

G.F. " Hookman " Brown said:
That's some good stuff , Chuck and Strat.
You are quite some lyricist there Micheal.Good voice too.
That one's just about in the can, sounds like.
Again, good stuff.

The Roadhouse said:
Well, here is an almost finished version of the song with vocals and guitar. Yall take a listen and let me know what we need to fix. Input is welcome.

Thanks,

Michael

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