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Permalink Reply by Chuck Mayo on October 31, 2009 at 11:17am

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Reply by G.F. " Hookman " Brown 5 hours ago
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Delete I've got three songs here that I've sent along.
All three are from a Musician Magazine compilation CD.The first is "Rattlesnake Shake" by Vince Converse and Innes Sibun.The second is "Roll the Dice" by the Fabulous Thunderbirds.Both have the "sound" or "feel" that I'm talking about,though neither are "boogies" per se.What they do have in common is both organs and pianos in both songs.Chuck, this should give a feel for the style? type? of keyboard sound I'd like to hear.
Chuck you have enormous talent.What I'm actually asking you to do is hold back on it a little, for this song.
Right now your sample is lush with sound and instrumentation.Instead,let's make this song a rough-and-tumble rockin' roadhouse kind of song.Both of these songs I'm sending are a little full too, in my opinion.But they have the right keyboard sounds.When it comes to Blues and Blues/Rock, I'm kinda of the opinion that less is more.
Chuck, I have many songs.About 50 or so.I'm already thinking of a song called "To Her Heart" that I wrote in 2003, that is perfect for you to turn your talents loose on. You could make this one very lush with strings and horns and such.Think Ricky Nelson style of love ballad.

The third song I'm sending is just for fun.It's an artist that I admire very much.This song is from her debut CD.
She was 19 yrs. old when she cut this, yet you can already hear the quality and the maturity in her voice.
The CD is "Playing With Matches".
The song is "Quintana" .
And the artist is Carolyn Wonderland.
1993

The Roadhouse said:
Yeah, start a new thread guys and lets work on it over there. I would suggest that we learn from our experiences on Creepin and outline the song structure first. Also, Hookman, you should give Chuck a "feel" you are looking for. You mentioned a little harder, more rock sound. Is there a certain band or sound that you hear in your head? Is it more like Cream? More like ZZ Top? Deep Purple? Help a brother out. :)

(Thread began under Online Collaboration/Collaborative Home Recording - http://www.texasbluesroadhouse.com/forum/topics/collaborative-home-...)

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Permalink Reply by G.F. " Hookman " Brown on October 31, 2009 at 5:18pm

Hi Chuck,

I've just got a recording program set up on my computer.I'll have a mike before the weekend is over.
For now let's look at this :

Short Intro

Chorus

Verse 1

Chorus

Verse 2

Chorus
Chorus

Piano fill

Organ fill

Chorus

Rpt. V 1

Ch

Rpt V 2

Ch
Ch
Ch
Rpt

fade

Each verse is made up of two stanzas.
This layout should extend the song into the 3 to 4 minute range.On recordings, I like to stay between 2:50 and 4:00.Playing something live you can extend it as much as your audience wants.

On this song, I believe the chorus is the "hook".I want to keep it in front of the listener as much as possible.
The chorus is what people will go around repeating and singing to themselves, and in a show , singing along with the band.
In the chorus, at the end of each of the first four lines, there is a double beat.
As in
Do the backstreet boogie dunh dunh

Those "dunh dunhs" should be done with horns, don't you think , Chuck?

Chuck, after listening to both the examples I chose and your recording again, I owe you an apology, you are right on top of the organ and piano sounds , however, I still believe less is more.
What I mean is, let's start with basic instrumentation (drums, organ, piano, bass, guitar), and then add the extras(horns, strings, percussion,etc.) carefully and judiciously in just the right spots, such as the line endings I described above.
Those are my thoughts.
Thanks again Chuck.
HB

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Mayo on October 31, 2009 at 9:34pm

My gear's packed for the wekeend so it'll probably be next week before I can get back to this, but after listening to your target grooves, I'm really at a bit of a loss about where to begin. Those cuts seem to be a lot closer to ZZ Top rock than to anything I was hearing with the lyrics. You may be better off starting with a guitar, bass & drum track and letting me add some keys or horns to the arrangement once you get it where you want it.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on November 2, 2009 at 1:03pm

Yeah, I may try to throw something together with a basic 4/4 beat using Band in a Box for us to get this started. But it will have to wait until I've done my homework on Creepin'. :)

MS

Chuck Mayo said:

My gear's packed for the wekeend so it'll probably be next week before I can get back to this, but after listening to your target grooves, I'm really at a bit of a loss about where to begin. Those cuts seem to be a lot closer to ZZ Top rock than to anything I was hearing with the lyrics. You may be better off starting with a guitar, bass & drum track and letting me add some keys or horns to the arrangement once you get it where you want it.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on November 4, 2009 at 10:36am

I'm listening to "Change In My Pocket" by Anson Funderburgh with Sam Myers, and it kind of has this feel I think. When I get around to this tune, I'll play around with that lick Anson is laying down for this. It's got a good straight 4/4 feel and barrelhouse piano sound.

MS

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Permalink Reply by G.F. " Hookman " Brown on November 7, 2009 at 1:19am

Yeah I pulled that Anson song up on the net and listened to it.
I like it, and it does have that nice and rough barrelhouse piano sound.
I would suggest increasing the tempo, and as you suggested, give it a 4/4 beat.
I did find something that is the right tempo and has a similar rhyming pattern.
Find "Rockin' Robin" by Bobby Day.Listen to the verses only.Pay no attention to the bird sounds , the hand claps or the chorus.
Listen to only the tempo and rhyme pattern of only the verse.
That is almost exactly the tempo and rhyme scheme of "Back Street Boogie".
That tempo and rhyme pattern is called Jump Blues or Boogie Blues.
Fast and Rhythmic, it makes you tap your foot and shake your ass.
Anyway,Listen to that and let me know what you think.
Sorry about being slow to answer.Lots of personal things going on and even tonight I'm sitting here sick with the flu.
I had planned to go to two CD release parties tonight and do complimentary photo shoots and didn't make either one.
One was Larry Sepulvado's "Cajun Cats and Creole Dogs" at JP's Hops House and the other was Adrian and the Sickness's "BFD" at Dan Electro's Guitar Bar.
Missed two great shows and parties.
The flu sucks.

Later,
Frank

The Roadhouse said:

I'm listening to "Change In My Pocket" by Anson Funderburgh with Sam Myers, and it kind of has this feel I think. When I get around to this tune, I'll play around with that lick Anson is laying down for this. It's got a good straight 4/4 feel and barrelhouse piano sound.

MS

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Mayo on November 14, 2009 at 3:04pm

Is this closer to the feel you're looking for?

Attachments:

• Back Street Boogie - Groove 2.mp3, 1.4 MB

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Mayo on November 15, 2009 at 10:56am

Well hell, never mind. Just saw your last exchange with Michael. If Rockin' Robin is the groove you're after, I was closer the first time. Lemme play around with that a bit.

Chuck Mayo said:

Is this closer to the feel you're looking for?

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Permalink Reply by G.F. " Hookman " Brown on November 15, 2009 at 8:03pm

Hey Chuck,
Sorry I haven't responded til now.
I've had the flu for over a week now.Today my ears are clogged, popping and hurting like hell.
I listened to the new mp3 you sent and I really,really like it, but like you say , it's not quite the right meter/rhyme scheme/ structure for "BSB".
However, it IS the right "sound".That new one is a great Blues-Rock groove.If you could combine that new "sound" with the meter/rhyme scheme/ structure of the 2nd "BSB" that you sent, you would be perfect.
As for the "Rockin' Robin" reference, remember I'm only talking about the tempo and rhyme scheme of the VERSES, not the chorus.Our verses are very similar to "RR" , but our chorus is absolutely different.
Chuck, I can sing the "BSB" lyrics to sample 2 and they fit well, but sample 3 has the "sound" I'm after. I tried to sing the "BSB" lyrics to sample 3 and they didn't seem to fit the meter.But I love that blues-rock sound on that one.Hell, I like everything you've sent.
Also as I said to Strat, ignore the hand claps and bird sounds.Use only the tempo and meter of the "RR" verse, with the sound and instrumentation of the third "BSB" and combine those with the verse/chorus structure of the second "BSB".
I hope I'm not asking for too much, but after listening to the various samples you've sent and conversing back and forth, I KNOW you have the talent to do this.
Everything you've sent sounds great, just as they are , to me and a few people I've played them for.Right now, we're just fine-tuning the music to fit the song as perfectly as we can.
Another thing I feel I need to say is that I have very, very little formal music training.You and Strat talk about music things in terms that I seldom understand, but that's MY lack of musical knowledge that causes that.
I'm sure that I've probably used some terms that seem completely off the wall to both of you.
Again, no training.
What I do is write lyrics to melodies I hear in my head.And I can carry a tune.I can sing my lyrics and anyone listening will hear the melody.
I don't know keys, notes, how to write musical notation, or anything else that would be learned in a musical classroom setting.
It might behoove us, for future songs, to discuss and develope some terms that we all can use and understand.
Basically, you and Strat might need to instruct me on what the proper terms are for the parts of the songs that I provide/work on.
I'm trying to get some sort of recording situation set up in my home.I'm looking at a mixer/computer interface from Yamaha that has a Cubase configuration in it.It can handle vocals and some instruments(not that I play any) and will send direct to the computer, which will allow me to send mp3s back and forth.Once I'm actually "talking" to ya'll, I think our communication about the song aspects will improve.
Is Cubase compatible with your equipment?

Lastly, I want to say Thanks again and again for your help with this song.

HB

PS I like that new one so much, that I might write all new lyrics for it


Chuck Mayo said:

Well hell, never mind. Just saw your last exchange with Michael. If Rockin' Robin is the groove you're after, I was closer the first time. Lemme play around with that a bit.

Chuck Mayo said:

Is this closer to the feel you're looking for?

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Permalink Reply by Michael Schaefer on November 20, 2009 at 9:22am

So I started working on this last night and I was not very successful. I tried to pull together a backing track using Band In A Box, and I got so frustrated I had to quit. That is one of the worst written pieces of software I've ever seen.

I have the backing track ready. I just can't figure out how to mute the cheesy midi horns and stuff that came with the style I picked. Apparently clicking "Mute" or setting the volume on the instrument to zero doesn't do the trick.

I'll try again tonight. If I get it done, I'll start working on a real simple over-driven guitar part that I'm hearing with this tune. Hopefully I'll have something for yall to listen to later this weekend.

Michael

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Permalink Reply by G.F. " Hookman " Brown on November 20, 2009 at 4:57pm

Kool.
Thanx
HB

The Roadhouse said:

So I started working on this last night and I was not very successful. I tried to pull together a backing track using Band In A Box, and I got so frustrated I had to quit. That is one of the worst written pieces of software I've ever seen.

I have the backing track ready. I just can't figure out how to mute the cheesy midi horns and stuff that came with the style I picked. Apparently clicking "Mute" or setting the volume on the instrument to zero doesn't do the trick.

I'll try again tonight. If I get it done, I'll start working on a real simple over-driven guitar part that I'm hearing with this tune. Hopefully I'll have something for yall to listen to later this weekend.

Michael

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